John Jantsch (00:01.085)
Hi there and welcome to a different episode of the Duct Tape Advertising and marketing Podcast. That is John Jantsch. My visitor as we speak is Derek Coburn. He is a seasoned monetary advisor and entrepreneur with over 25 years of expertise. He’s the co-founder of Cadre, an unique neighborhood of CEOs and entrepreneurs, which he launched along with his spouse, Melanie. Derek can also be the writer of the bestselling ebook, Networking is Not Working. And we will speak about his newest ebook as we speak.
Let’s retire retirement, the best way to take pleasure in life to the fullest now and later. So Derek, welcome again to the present.
Derek Coburn (00:34.85)
Thanks, John. So joyful to be right here.
John Jantsch (00:36.797)
So I do know you’ve got accomplished some analysis on this, so I am simply going to ask you, like, the place did retirement come from? Did individuals within the Center Ages retire, or is that like a sort of a brand new factor?
Derek Coburn (00:45.838)
Yeah, it is barely 100 years previous. It first began in 1889. It was the primary social program developed in Germany by a chancellor named Otto von Bismarck. They usually chosen the age of 70 on the time as a result of that was the age that most individuals died. They introduced it right down to 65 about 10 years later.
FDR when he was establishing social safety in 1935, thought it gave the impression of a very good quantity at a time when life expectancy on this nation was 71. So, you already know, it is barely over 100 years previous and it was actually by no means supposed to be this factor that you simply, you already know, did for 30 plus years.
John Jantsch (01:28.883)
So is that, is that, is, was that an alternate title of your ebook? Work until you die?
Derek Coburn (01:35.328)
I am undecided, you already know, I believe which may not have gone over as effectively. Dan Pink like 5 – 6 years in the past informed me, like, I believe a very good title on your ebook could be The best way to By no means Retire. And I assumed it is a good title, however I informed him that I believe that there is simply not sufficient individuals, actually not then, that had been elevating their hand and knew they already didn’t wish to work. I felt like I wanted to have a title that was extra inclusive to deliver individuals in and with, you already know, with dangling a carrot after which sort of trick them as soon as I received their consideration.
John Jantsch (01:38.683)
You
John Jantsch (02:05.235)
Yeah. Nicely, and we’ll get again to the way you’re defining retirement as a result of that is key to this. you already know, as a monetary advisor, imply, most monetary advisors spend an entire lot of time speaking about individuals saving for retirement. So how, I imply, has that been one thing you’ve got needed to sort of appropriate in your personal advising or is that one thing that is by no means actually been part of your MO?
Derek Coburn (02:27.694)
, I’ve simply been doing this. And the rationale that I wrote determined to write down this ebook in 2017 is I noticed that collectively the most effective factor that I had accomplished for almost all of my shoppers is assist them come to the belief that they weren’t going to be joyful sitting round doing nothing for 30 years. And I began off penning this ebook with the intention to make use of it as a enterprise card to draw extra excessive web price shoppers that I would wish to work with. However I offered my apply to a non-public fairness firm in 2019 and
received some flexibility after which COVID occurred. I sort of set it apart for a lot of years and I really feel like now, as a result of I am not seeking to develop that apply, I used to be capable of write a ebook that may attraction to a broader viewers, be useful to a broader viewers. to your level, monetary advisors are usually not saying, do you wish to retire? They’re saying, what age do you wish to retire? And everyone seems to be being opted into this idea and so they’re simply going together with it, I believe, with out actually questioning whether or not it is going to make sense for them or not.
John Jantsch (03:27.251)
Yeah. And naturally, one variable to this complete factor is that we’re all dwelling longer, proper? imply, 65, you you had been possibly incapable of doing an entire lot extra, you already know, 100 years in the past within the office, however proper. now, you already know, effectively, it is Warren Buffett, like 90. , I imply, so, so how does that issue into this concept that, you already know, in case you retired 65, I imply, you might be in all probability taking a look at 25, 30 years.
Derek Coburn (03:38.765)
Yeah.
Derek Coburn (03:44.429)
Yep.
Derek Coburn (03:54.22)
Yeah, effectively, you are seeing this, this on, on retirement motion that is beginning to occur. Brian Clark is doing a little cool issues round it along with his new undertaking additional, however basically 25 to 30 % of people that have, who’ve historically retired or going again to work. A few of them are doing it for the cash, however most of them are doing it as a result of they missed the connection, the aim, the power to, to, to contribute in, in a significant means.
And I believe there’s simply lots of people which have gone together with this. They had been informed in the event that they made sacrifices and did issues a sure means that they had been going to be rewarded. They had been going to be rewarded with this free time and this happiness and this capacity to do no matter they wish to do. it isn’t enjoying out the way in which that they thought it was going to.
John Jantsch (04:36.925)
Nicely, and even worse, possibly they labored themselves to the bone, labored extra hours, sacrificed their household with the promise of what comes after, proper? After which after they received there, it did not come, proper?
Derek Coburn (04:45.518)
Yeah.
Derek Coburn (04:49.802)
Precisely. Yep. Just like the arrival fallacy, this promise that it could be a sure means after which it isn’t.
John Jantsch (04:55.719)
Yeah. In order that’s an enormous a part of your ebook. And that is why I saying, I believe you are saying let’s retire retirement, however you are additionally redefining retirement. Aren’t you a bit bit on this and an enormous a part of the ebook is like, let’s have a personally fulfilling life proper now.
Derek Coburn (05:10.882)
Yeah, I believe that lots of people simply do not realize how effectively the maths works out. So I am saying to work longer, however I am additionally saying that by recognizing that you will in all probability work longer, it ought to translate into you not feeling like it’s a must to work numerous additional hours now when possibly your children want you extra, or possibly while you wish to journey or date your partner extra aggressively. It is extra about making the most of the truth that this revenue might be coming in sooner or later.
And it is kind of sponsoring the concept you are able to do these different issues and put money into these different relationships and abilities and experiences in a means that possibly you did not assume you had been capable of while you needed to cease at 65.
John Jantsch (05:48.243)
Your subsequent ebook, I am sorry I received distracted there, Derek, your subsequent ebook is Date Your Partner Extra Aggressively.
Derek Coburn (05:54.478)
That is possibly just like the second or third time I’ve mentioned that out loud, however.
John Jantsch (06:01.407)
So, you already know, there is a ebook I learn a couple of years in the past that I assumed made numerous sense. I I would get the title unsuitable. was one thing like Die Broke, however the thought was that lots of people additionally simply hold on to all this cash that they, you already know, squirrel away for retirement as a substitute of like giving it to their children or their grandkids to ship them to school now. , like my kids after they’re 55 in all probability do not want my cash.
as, as a lot as they could now. And, I believe that concept of take that, you already know, take that trip now, you already know, try this massive journey, you already know, now, as a result of while you’re 75, 80, possibly you do not go to China or you do not go to Vietnam or one thing, as a result of it is onerous.
Derek Coburn (06:40.724)
Yeah, you I believe you are referring to Die with Zero by Invoice Perkins and actually good ebook, you already know, and I believe that one space the place possibly we differ a bit bit is he is making the case that you’ll take pleasure in a visit to Europe extra while you’re 35 than while you’re 50. You are not going to be as bodily succesful to do a few of these issues, however I am of the idea, and there is numerous science that backs this up, to the place in case you’re taking higher care of your self now, in case you’re occurring extra journeys now, in case you’re
John Jantsch (06:43.813)
Yeah, that is it. That is proper. That is proper. Yeah. Yeah.
Derek Coburn (07:09.29)
When you’re extra energetic now, you are extra probably to have the ability to proceed doing these issues sooner or later. It is actually the individuals that are not doing these issues that I believe are going to have a more durable time with
John Jantsch (07:14.803)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I am really an avid bike rider and I am doing a triathlon this yr, you already know, and I am 65 and my worry is that if I cease doing these, I will not be capable of do it anyway.
Derek Coburn (07:26.499)
Yeah.
Derek Coburn (07:31.424)
I believe it is a legitimate worry and it is a worry effectively backed by science that agrees with you.
John Jantsch (07:35.953)
Yeah. I do should let the cat out of the bag there. The triathlon I am doing is a run fish drink. So not precisely, not precisely the identical factor, however so you have got clearly in your monetary apply, I imply, that is, that is like actually your analysis lab, proper? To some extent, however then additionally cadre, you already know, you’re employed with numerous excessive powered CEOs, people that run their very own corporations in that which are
Derek Coburn (07:46.85)
That is a very good one. Yeah.
John Jantsch (08:05.117)
in all probability taking a look at, you already know, they are not wanting on the pension plan, you retirement. How has that sort of knowledgeable a few of your views?
Derek Coburn (08:09.325)
Yeah.
Derek Coburn (08:12.738)
What’s fascinating is even the those who kind of know that they are by no means going to cease working, they’re nonetheless dwelling their life like they will. They’re nonetheless making monetary selections and selections based mostly on the actual fact they will retire at 65 like everybody else. So for instance, after they meet with their monetary advisors, they’re saying, like, what do I must do to cease working at 65 and to cease doing this? And I might say that with entrepreneurs and enterprise homeowners, typically it isn’t
John Jantsch (08:28.465)
Run.
Derek Coburn (08:42.262)
retirement, but it surely’s I am going to get round to doing X as soon as I’ve an exit, as soon as I usher in a CEO, as soon as I usher in another person. And I believe that that it is the identical story. It is the it is justifying deferring possibly issues in relationships that deserve extra of your consideration proper now within the identify of getting round to it after you have a sure sum of money or a sure monetary expertise or exit from what you are promoting.
John Jantsch (09:04.637)
Yeah, yeah.
Are you discovering, you already know, I believe some, to a point, we’re speaking about simply extending how lengthy you’re employed, however what a couple of main pivot? , it is like, I’ve, I have been doing this for 30 years, accomplished what I wish to do right here. I wish to go do one thing completely different. I am not going to retire, however I’ll do one thing completely completely different. Perhaps one thing that I believe is appears completely cool or that I am extra ready to do as we speak.
Derek Coburn (09:28.59)
Yeah, like so I’ve a complete chapter. It is the longest chapter in my ebook that is that is which are case research about those who have which have taken this and so they’ve gone into numerous completely different instructions. And one one possibly that is likely to be enjoyable to share with you is simply our mutual pal, Jay Bear, who I spoke with for the ebook and Jay offered his company, I believe early on in covid and was sitting round and determined he needed to start out making movies about tequila.
John Jantsch (09:43.475)
Mm-hmm.
Derek Coburn (09:54.73)
And, you already know, so he went from that to actually leaning into certainly one of his passions and certainly one of his pursuits. And after sharing the case examine, I’ve a callback later within the ebook to say, look, I imply, if J. Bear could make some huge cash, you already know, ingesting tequila and speaking about it on video, then I am positive that there is numerous completely different cool concepts on the market which are ready for you as effectively.
John Jantsch (10:17.489)
Yeah, that additionally necessitated some quantity of journey to some locations he hadn’t frolicked into. I believe it actually…
Derek Coburn (10:25.484)
I believe he is principally damage by the truth that extra individuals acknowledge him because the tequila man than the keynote speaker.
John Jantsch (10:32.595)
He is nonetheless doing a good quantity of that too. speak about among the modifications, possibly they are not modifications, but when someone goes to learn you, decide up your ebook and, and actually the concepts in it simply resonate. What are among the modifications that you simply they’re in all probability going to come across or, possibly it is simply mindset.
Derek Coburn (10:54.57)
Yeah, one of many first issues that I wish to wish to level out is simply the monetary influence it is going to have. And so I share an instance within the ebook a couple of fictitious man named Tony who’s 45 years previous. makes 100 and fifty thousand a yr and he has 100 and fifty thousand {dollars} saved up for retirement. You could possibly name it two fifty 5 hundred, 100 thousand, no matter you need it to be. But when Tony desires to have a standard retirement at sixty 5, he has to avoid wasting about twenty 5 hundred {dollars} per 30 days with a purpose to make that occur, which is.
20 % of what he is bringing residence, which is a non-starter for most individuals. That may imply that you’re saving about what you are dwelling on. If Tony decides to work till he is 75 as a substitute of 65, the quantity he has to avoid wasting on a month-to-month foundation goes from 2,500 right down to $110 per 30 days. It goes down by 96%. And even when he does not wish to work till he is 75, he desires to go till he is 70, it goes down 75 % to 600 bucks a month.
John Jantsch (11:40.136)
Mm.
Derek Coburn (11:50.518)
And so we have all seen these articles that make us really feel actually dumb about how we must always have saved extra after we had been 22 years previous and making the most of compounding curiosity. And whereas numerous us did not try this, and even when we’d have accomplished that, we weren’t actually incomes some huge cash at the moment in comparison with what we’re incomes now. In any case, there aren’t numerous articles speaking about the advantages of getting the benefit of compounding curiosity by letting it sit in for an additional 5 or 10 years longer.
Instantly, I need individuals to know, I need individuals to see they’ve much more cash and much more time that they’ll spend in another way as soon as they notice, you already know, I am going to in all probability be doing this a bit bit longer than what I used to be initially pondering.
John Jantsch (12:28.657)
Yeah, I imply, does not even consider, assuming it’s going to be there for a couple of extra years. Would not even issue within the escalation to social safety, proper? Yeah.
Derek Coburn (12:36.022)
Yeah, precisely. I am going to inform you like one thing possibly extra particularly 401k plans turned all the trend, primarily as a result of the concept I can put cash away on a tax free foundation whereas I am working get a tax deduction based mostly on my present tax bracket. And once I pull it out, I will not be working. So I will be at a decrease tax bracket. And that looks as if a no brainer to anybody while you lay it out like that. However as soon as
John Jantsch (12:42.259)
Mm-hmm.
John Jantsch (12:56.315)
Over. Yeah.
Derek Coburn (13:02.166)
somebody realizes there is a good likelihood they is likely to be working into their 70s and they will be taking required minimal distributions from their 401k plan and so they’re nonetheless incomes an revenue, then possibly they are not in a decrease tax bracket.
John Jantsch (13:13.331)
Additionally, additionally that tax received tax increased bracket
Derek Coburn (13:17.546)
Yeah, possibly this 401k plan is not pretty much as good of a deal because it appears. with out getting too technical right here, like a simple repair for that, proper, is I believe over 90 % of 401k plans proper now have the choice to transform it to a Roth. And that is likely to be one thing that individuals wish to do the place they’re making their contributions on a post-tax foundation. However that is only one instance of possibly how your pondering ought to change a bit bit when you notice you is likely to be working a bit bit longer.
John Jantsch (13:22.696)
Grrrr
John Jantsch (13:43.251)
You’ve got additionally missed, you already know, I do know in our case, we’ve a 3 % match on the, you already know, employer match. In order that actually helps that out a bit bit.
Derek Coburn (13:52.406)
Yeah, and I say that is the place even like even possibly earlier than you’re employed to aggressively construct up your emergency reserve fund. When you’re getting a match, in all probability benefit from that.
John Jantsch (14:01.233)
Yeah. Yeah. Plus homeowners, you already know, have the power to revenue share right into a 401k. So, you already know, which I’ll or might not have taken full benefit of each a kind of.
Derek Coburn (14:11.95)
Wow, wonderful. Yep.
John Jantsch (14:17.455)
Is there any way of life change? As a result of I’m right here, I am simply going to work longer, proper? So how does that have an effect on my partner? How does that have an effect on different way of life issues? that one thing that is going to be lifelike in that regard?
Derek Coburn (14:37.39)
I am going to offer you like a fair short-term instance of the way it’s enjoying out for me and a few individuals I do know. So I’ve a 15 and a 12 yr previous and I spend a major period of time with them, with my spouse, with my associates in comparison with most individuals I do know. Yeah, precisely. And one of many driving elements behind that’s that when my youngest strikes out of the home in 5 and a half years,
John Jantsch (14:52.115)
as your Instagram account will attest.
Derek Coburn (15:05.006)
I’ll be prepared to show it up a notch. I’ll be able to work much more than I am working now. And simply realizing that I’ll have this revenue coming in in 5 – 6 years actually frees me up and liberates me to lean into spending as a lot time with them as potential. And I believe that is simply the extra shorter time period, extra abbreviated model of the way it works in my thoughts for fascinated with what I’ll be doing 20, 30 years from now.
John Jantsch (15:29.713)
Are you doing any teaching workshops, something outdoors of the ebook?
Derek Coburn (15:35.2)
Yeah, I am not. know, I am open to it. I am occupied with it, however I really feel actually good about the place I am the place I am going proper now on this message that I’ve to share. you already know, we’ll see the place it goes. I have been lots of people ask me, however I’ve simply by no means.
John Jantsch (15:47.443)
As a result of I might, yeah, yeah. And since I believe one of many challenges, it isn’t essentially only a, implement these 5 steps on this framework. you will be, I imply, it is actually a mindset first, proper? I’ve to simply accept this concept as a result of I’ve spent my complete life pondering a special thought.
Derek Coburn (16:05.71)
Yeah. Yeah. imply, look, and I am going to offer you an instance of that. I imply, I’ve shoppers who’re of their 70s who’ve important belongings, proper? I am going to say consumer A has, consumer A and consumer B each have $15 million. Consumer A and consumer B might spend their cash as a lot as they need from now till they go away and they will be effective. Consumer A is working a job making about $100,000 $150,000 a yr.
doing issues the way in which they wish to do on their phrases, how they wish to do it, and consumer B just isn’t doing something in any respect. Consumer A is spending their cash in a lot extra of a carefree means. I believe primarily as a result of they know they’re nonetheless being profitable, that is nonetheless coming in. They have not entered that part the place, my gosh, all I am doing is taking out proper now. So I might higher be.
John Jantsch (16:51.635)
Or or or watching the information or the inventory market to see what occurred to my retirement account, proper?
Derek Coburn (16:57.038)
Yeah, precisely. However I agree with you. imply, it is, you already know, even once more, like even the those who that know they will work longer, they have not actually accomplished the software program replace to to, you already know, make a change to how they’re dwelling their lives.
John Jantsch (17:10.407)
Yeah. Yeah. So are there first steps? imply, is there like, how do you, how do you get individuals rethinking their retirement plans?
Derek Coburn (17:18.956)
Nicely, you already know, it is a few methods. One is I shared the instance about how they now have more cash simply by realizing, and that often makes individuals really feel so much higher about leaning into it. gosh, yeah, I am going to simply work an additional couple of years. I might say that
John Jantsch (17:33.777)
Are there, there calculators? imply, have you ever developed calculators that might really enable someone to place that, these numbers in? Yeah. Okay.
Derek Coburn (17:39.168)
Yeah, I’ve a calculator on my web site, which I can share with you. It is DerekCoburn.com ahead slash by no means retire. And it sort of permits individuals to enter in their very own numbers and, plug in and see the distinction that it could make. However, but it surely’s that, but it surely’s additionally mixed with, with possibly, you already know, interesting to their fears and their issues. So one of many, one of many examples I share within the ebook is when my boys had been 10 and 5 or 10 and 7, we had a nighttime routine the place we’d take turns.
John Jantsch (17:48.349)
Good, good. Yeah.
Derek Coburn (18:07.606)
my spouse and I laying in mattress with them for 10 or quarter-hour and serving to them cool down and fall asleep. And it is very nice after they’re that little. and I caught myself with my oldest. I am like, this isn’t going to final for much longer. And right here I’m most nights wishing it could hurry up and finish, hurry up and go to sleep. I am not telling him this, however I am saying it to myself. I wish to go watch a present. I wish to go end this work, reply to this electronic mail. And I actually labored onerous. was like, I wish to recognize this and worth it extra.
John Jantsch (18:23.187)
Sure, sure, sure.
John Jantsch (18:28.659)
Proper, proper, proper.
Derek Coburn (18:36.046)
So I had this thought, you what if an organization invents a time machine? And 20 years from now, they provide me the chance to stroke a test, to return in time for one night time with the ten yr previous model of my child for one nighttime routine, one nighttime snuggle, what would I pay for that? And I known as it 50 grand. I might pay greater than that, I do know that 65 yr previous me would pay 50 grand in a heartbeat to try this. And I believe we’re simply having…
mother and father are having these $50,000 moments taking place on a regular basis that we’re taking with no consideration. And I believe me personally, I am gonna actually miss my children after they’re gone. And I do know there’s gonna be a brand new part. I do know that it is gonna be good, hopefully. I do know that our relationship will evolve, however I actually do not assume that folks are spending the period of time that they’re going to want they’d have spent with their children.
John Jantsch (19:26.523)
Yeah, it is fascinating. I am in a special part after which I, you already know, I’ve grandchildren now and I’ll inform you that, you already know, school is a special part. However, you already know, submit school is absolutely, I imply, we, we spend, you already know, they’re all around the nation now and we spend a good period of time, you already know, with them as particular person household items. And, you already know, I’ll say that is fairly cool as effectively.
Derek Coburn (19:30.648)
Yeah.
Derek Coburn (19:48.376)
Yeah, I see the way you’re doing it, man. I’ve numerous respect and I’ve little question that you simply guys are simply wonderful grandparents.
John Jantsch (19:55.859)
Nicely, that is one that there is, you already know, identical to parenting, there is not any like course or ebook which you could learn that can really will let you know the best way to do it. So making it up day-after-day. Completely. Nicely, Derek, I recognize you taking a couple of moments to cease by. It is at all times nice to meet up with you. Is there someplace you’d you already talked about Derek Coburn.com? Is there wherever else you’d talked about that individuals may wish to join with you or discover extra concerning the ebook?
Derek Coburn (20:06.786)
First time that we’re all doing this, yeah.
Derek Coburn (20:21.676)
Yeah, that is nice. Like I’ve already been writing and elaborating on numerous the concepts from the ebook that are not within the ebook on my web site. I am actually simply wanting ahead to beginning a motion and seeing how far we will take this factor. So I recognize you having me right here and it is at all times great to spend the time with you.
John Jantsch (20:32.486)
Superior.
John Jantsch (20:35.953)
Yeah. Nicely, once more, recognize you coming by and hopefully we’ll see you one nowadays on the market on the street.
Derek Coburn (20:40.834)
Thanks, John.
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