Jay is one in every of B2B’s most prolific makers. In between working in content material advertising and marketing and digital technique at Google and HubSpot, and becoming a member of VC agency NextView as VP of Model, he’s written some of Velocity’s favorite books, launched multiple hit podcasts and writes a killer publication you should subscribe to right now.
Right this moment he thinks of himself extra as an “government producer” serving to manufacturers, groups and people inform tales that earn belief and encourage motion. We caught up with him to debate how he does that.
Stan: Jay, what motivates you?
Jay: I wish to assist others make issues that matter to their careers, corporations, and communities. Algorithms prioritize the loudest voices, and the trade retains chasing stylish new techniques that rise and fall. In the meantime, the reality stays: It’s not attain however resonance that will get outcomes.
I realized this firsthand throughout my time in B2B at HubSpot, Google, and past. We weren’t investing within the depth of our work; we have been chasing attain. However if you wish to construct your model and your viewers, you want resonance. You really want to make them care.
Stan: May you outline resonance for us?
Jay: Resonance is the urge to behave. Individuals really feel resonance when a message or second aligns with them. It’s when one thing clicks, they usually really feel amplified and energized to take motion. Consider it like two frequencies aligning. The primary imparts power to the second and amplifies it. That’s what nice inventive work does — it connects deeply and transfers power to the viewers.
For this reason we advocate sure issues — podcasts, books, concepts — to colleagues and associates. It’s not simply that we loved them; they resonated with us on a deeper stage. And that urge to behave, that resonance, is what precedes conversion. With out it, there’s no motion. Most B2B advertising and marketing misses resonance.
Stan: I learn your items concerning the issues of counting on finest practices. To me, it looks as if a lot of B2B advertising and marketing is painted by numbers. Why do you suppose B2B doesn’t usually consider in storytelling and resonance?
Jay: I feel it’s as a result of for years, B2B didn’t need to. Up to now, you can dangle your shingle and say, ‘I serve different companies by doing X,’ and that labored since you have been virtually the one participant on the town. Patrons didn’t have the infinite selection we see immediately. Again then, all of it got here down primarily to options and advantages.
Now, all the pieces’s modified. We’re up towards a tidal wave of voices, specialists, merchandise, and companies all clamoring for consideration. And our audiences aren’t simply enthusiastic about our classes all day — they’re consuming politics, sports activities, leisure, and all the pieces else.
Merely current and saying, ‘Hey, we’re right here!’ might need labored in a bygone period, however immediately, it’s not simply inadequate — it’s damaged.
Stan: I at all times inform purchasers we’re in a bare-knuckle road battle for consideration, not simply with rivals however with all the pieces else. So what makes an amazing story that resonates?
Jay: Let’s discuss concerning the phrase ‘nice’ — it may possibly ship folks within the improper course. There’s a distinction between an amazing storyteller and an efficient storyteller. A fantastic story entertains you, however an efficient story strikes you. For instance, your good friend may inform an amazing story about their vacation, however you’re not, in consequence, essentially impressed to behave or replicate by yourself life. An efficient story goes past mere leisure; it prompts motion.
There are 4 key components of a compelling story.
- Align together with your viewers by exhibiting that you simply perceive their hopes, challenges, and targets.
- Agitate by highlighting the ache factors and penalties of following the standard approach of doing issues.
- Assert your distinct perspective or premise as the answer.
- Invite them to take motion.
The issue is, entrepreneurs are likely to skip straight to the invite. They don’t do the work to align, agitate, or assert, so the invite falls flat. The perfect analogy I can provide is that this: Traditionally (and truly immediately in numerous circumstances), B2B entrepreneurs would wait till somebody working a street race was very near the end line, then bounce in and say, ‘Hey, run the final mile with me!’ Most patrons go, ‘Hell no! The place have been you earlier?’
We have to be serving to, enhancing, inspiring, and resonating with patrons alongside the complete journey — not simply on the very finish. We’ve to assist them do the crucial job of shopping for, not simply promote to them. Sure, your messaging and premise will repel the improper folks, however that’s okay. These are the individuals who aren’t even within the race but. As an alternative, give attention to resonating with these at varied phases of the customer’s journey. That’s larger ROI and a straighter funnel, versus a wasteful, broad high of funnel.
Stan: I lately spoke with Anthony Kennada from AudiencePlus, and his argument is that entrepreneurs’ job is to construct an viewers or a group. Which means actually understanding their wants and creating a spot the place they will join. In case you get your resonance proper, your viewers will come to you — you don’t want 48 channels and $400,000 a yr to push it by way of. What does that appear to be in your work?
Jay: It’s an amazing query as a result of with all of the channels, adjustments, inside politicking, and emotional turmoil, we lose sight of the inspiration of B2B advertising and marketing. And that basis is straightforward: Earn belief and spark motion.
That’s it. Are you able to earn their belief? Are you able to encourage motion?
The place issues go improper is once we leap too far towards sparking motion with out doing the work to earn belief. That’s when advertising and marketing feels pushy, spammy, or ineffective.
The reality is, this course of takes so long as your crew is keen to look inward. A lot of the solutions are inside, not exterior. It’s about asking, ‘Why do we are saying this? What are we actually making an attempt to speak?’ Most groups don’t take the time to be sincere with themselves about their imaginative and prescient, and that’s why they fail to resonate.
If you do the work, all the pieces else improves. Your concepts turn into simple, and also you emerge as a pacesetter in your viewers’s thoughts. That’s the facility of resonance.
Stan: And the way vital is authenticity to all of this?
Jay: Authenticity is such an attention-grabbing phrase. It’s turn into so fraught. I’m not even positive we all know what it means anymore.
For instance, if I have been to be fully genuine proper now, I’d let you know that I really feel like crap most days. I’ve two very tiny children, and life is chaotic. However professionally, I’ve made a promise to you as a listener, reader, shopper, or member — to point out up as one of the best model of myself by way of this medium. That’s not me being inauthentic; it’s me honoring my dedication.
I desire to think about authenticity by way of origin. The phrase itself means ‘of undisputed origin.’ And in the event you have a look at origin, it’s only one step away from originality, which is what each marketer and communicator needs. We wish to personal an thought so distinctly that it stands out within the minds of our viewers.
Once I work with entrepreneurs, executives, or entrepreneurs, we begin by uncovering what I name the ‘two-drink minimal’ model of themselves. Overlook polished phrasing or wordsmithing — simply give me your uncooked, sincere rant. That’s the uncooked clay we work with.
Most individuals have a perspective, but it surely’s buried. They really feel it, however they don’t articulate it crisply. That’s an issue as a result of in case your concepts aren’t instantly obvious, folks received’t spend the time digging for them. It’s what I name ‘found worth.’
The purpose is to show that found worth into one thing obvious, one thing actual, one thing motivating. A fantastic storyteller conveys one thing shortly, so the viewers immediately will get it and is aware of there’s depth behind it. It’s like a B2B sale — you earn the best to maintain their consideration one sentence at a time.
This is applicable even in informal interactions. Think about somebody asks you at an trade occasion, ‘What do you do?’ As an alternative of answering together with your title, flip the script. Begin with ‘You.’ For instance, ‘You know the way you run an company? Due to that, you in all probability have this purpose or problem.’ Then, align, agitate, assert, and invite. It’s a lot simpler than launching into what you do. But, we’re skilled to guide with all the pieces about ourselves, which makes us lose the viewers immediately.
Stan: We break up the market into differentiation-based advertising and marketing (I wish to present you ways I’m higher) vs. evangelical advertising and marketing (I’m going to promote you a brand new story or imaginative and prescient). It feels just like the four-step technique you’ve outlined is absolutely applicable for promoting a brand new story or imaginative and prescient. Do you care concerning the distinction between fast-growth challengers and extra established commodity gamers when creating the story?
Jay: My dad is a software program engineer and lifelong entrepreneur, and he likes to joke that huge corporations succeed regardless of themselves. I feel he’s proper. Large corporations profit from inertia. They’re like an object in movement — they keep in movement. However inertia solely will get you up to now. Sooner or later, it’s a must to ask, ‘Succeed to what ends? What heights?’
That is the place numerous massive organizations wrestle. They’re pushed by momentum, not imaginative and prescient. Their content material initiatives typically really feel anonymous and faceless — issues like firm blogs that rank properly on search however don’t construct emotional connections. In the meantime, private manufacturers are thriving. Individuals observe personalities on social media, not model handles. They belief people with distinct views. That’s the lacking piece for a lot of huge corporations — they haven’t embraced the concept of making expertise.
In case you have a look at media corporations, the belief and connection begin with the personalities. For instance, I fell in love with Ezra Klein at Vox. By him, I got here to belief Vox. Later, I adopted Invoice Simmons from ESPN to The Ringer, and thru him, I found different nice personalities like Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion. That’s the way you construct loyalty — by way of expertise, not faceless content material.
That is the chance for entrepreneurs: Cease pondering like content material farms and begin pondering like media corporations. Platform your folks. Develop expertise. That’s the place the belief and alternatives lie.
Stan: You have been doing podcasting and serving to different folks do podcasts. I feel we even thought a few instances about bringing you in to assist Velocity. Are you continue to experimenting with codecs now, or are you primarily centered on the strategic stuff?
Jay: Actually, I’ve moved away from podcasting as a spotlight, however the classes I realized nonetheless inform all the pieces I do. Once I launched my very own present at a VC agency, we had a definite idea and format. Inside a number of episodes, we have been listed among the many finest reveals in VC alongside corporations with lots of of episodes. That taught me the facility of a robust premise.
Later, I began getting inbound requests to create podcasts for others. But it surely turned clear that the true worth wasn’t within the technical manufacturing — it was within the premise. The premise of the present displays your total model and perspective. It’s probably the most worthwhile asset you acquire, and it informs a lot extra than simply the podcast.
Now, I consider myself as an government producer, not only for podcasts however for thought management platforms. I assist groups and people develop their IP — their mental property — and switch it into speeches, books, newsletters, and even podcasts. It’s all about crafting a system for higher-impact communication.
In the end, it’s a craft. Whether or not it’s a podcast or a keynote speech, it’s about creating one thing that’s not simply purposeful however memorable.
Stan: If you meet somebody for the primary time who’s interested by what you do, are you aware whether or not they’re best for you? Are you able to outline what a fruitful relationship seems like?
Jay: I’ve two filters, and neither of them feels like a job title. The primary is that it’s a must to care about differentiation. That idea has to matter to you. The second is extra particular: if I say, ‘You’re sensible sufficient, you’re knowledgeable sufficient, however your IP isn’t robust sufficient to distinguish and resonate,’ and also you reply with, ‘Yeah, how do I repair that?’ you then’re my particular person.
However in the event you get defensive or valuable about your concepts, we received’t work properly collectively. I want honesty. I’m not right here to repackage what you have already got; I’m right here that will help you construct one thing stronger.
To me, one of the best work occurs in partnerships — like when musicians rent a producer like Rick Rubin to push them creatively. That’s the place the magic occurs. It’s not about tweaking; it’s about creating one thing actually authentic.
Stan: We at all times say to purchasers we now have one huge benefit over you and one drawback. The drawback is that we don’t work in your firm, so we could not know your market in addition to you. However the huge benefit is that we don’t work in your firm, so we’re not slowed down by the final two years.
Jay: Precisely. That exterior perspective is invaluable. Let me offer you an instance.
I work with Sarah Stockdale, founder and CEO of Growclass. She runs an schooling firm for entrepreneurs and has unimaginable concepts, most of which weren’t exhibiting up publicly.
She has this idea known as the Whisper Impact. Her premise is that success isn’t about being a lone genius — it’s about group. Promotions and alternatives occur by way of and with different folks.
In one in every of her speeches, she explains how whispers — small, viral moments — drive bottom-of-funnel gross sales. It’s not the top-of-funnel viral content material we usually consider; it’s way more focused and impactful.
The bottom line is to take a fundamental idea like ‘know your purchaser’ and go deeper. What does it imply to whisper? How do you train others to undertake this strategy? By digging into the premise, Sarah turned a good suggestion right into a transformative framework.
That’s the work I like — serving to folks take their uncooked concepts and switch them into one thing that resonates deeply.
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