{"id":11981,"date":"2022-02-10T21:34:09","date_gmt":"2022-02-10T21:34:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mailinvest.blog\/index.php\/2022\/02\/10\/diversity-and-agency-brand-building\/"},"modified":"2022-02-10T21:34:09","modified_gmt":"2022-02-10T21:34:09","slug":"diversity-and-agency-brand-building","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mailinvest.blog\/index.php\/2022\/02\/10\/diversity-and-agency-brand-building\/","title":{"rendered":"Diversity and Agency Brand Building"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <a href=\"https:\/\/go.fiverr.com\/visit\/?bta=1052423&nci=17043\" Target=\"_Top\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" src=\"https:\/\/fiverr.ck-cdn.com\/tn\/serve\/?cid=40081059\"  width=\"601\" height=\"201\"><\/a>\n<br \/><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.trinityp3.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/02\/Mish_Fletcher.jpeg\" \/><\/p>\n<div>\n<p><em><a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/au\/podcast\/managing-marketing\/id1018735190\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Managing Marketing<\/a>\u00a0is a podcast hosted by TrinityP3 Founder and Global CEO,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.trinityp3.com\/people\/management-team\/darren-woolley\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Darren Woolley<\/a>.\u00a0Each podcast is a conversation with a thought-leader, professional or practitioner of marketing and communications on the issues, insights and opportunities in the marketing management category.\u00a0Ideal for marketers, advertisers, media and commercial communications professionals.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/mishfletcher\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" class=\"external\">Mish Fletcher<\/a> is the Chief Growth Officer for IPG (Interpublic Group) Asia-Pacific. She is also an industry professional passionate about public relations, building agency brands and growing agency businesses including OgilvyOne, Accenture Interactive, FCB\/SIX and more. It is a skill she has used to build the profiles of the agency leaders she has worked with, and more recently for herself. Mish is a TrinityP3 Marketing Mentor and she shares with us the passion and the lessons she has learned along the way from Australia to the UK, the USA and back to Asia<\/span>.<\/p>\n<p>You can listen to the podcast here:<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.trinityp3.com\/2022\/02\/diversity-and-agency-brand-building\/about:blank\" width=\"100%\" height=\"166\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" data-src=\"https:\/\/w.soundcloud.com\/player\/?url=https%3A\/\/api.soundcloud.com\/tracks\/1211776687&amp;color=%23ff5500&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;show_teaser=true\" data-class=\"LazyLoad\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Follow Managing Marketing on\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/managing-marketing\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Soundcloud<\/a>,\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/managingmarketing.podbean.com\/\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Podbean,<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zb3VuZGNsb3VkLmNvbS91c2Vycy9zb3VuZGNsb3VkOnVzZXJzOjE2MTQ0MjA2NC9zb3VuZHMucnNz\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Google Podcasts,<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/podcasts\/Business--Economics-Podcasts\/Managing-Marketing-p1275737\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">TuneIn<\/a>,\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/75mJ4Gt6MWzFWvmd3A64XW\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Stitcher,<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/75mJ4Gt6MWzFWvmd3A64XW\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Spotify,<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/au\/podcast\/managing-marketing\/id1018735190\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Apple Podcast<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/5e7b205c-81c9-44e0-aa1d-d2ce504c6048%E2%80%8B\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Amazon Podcasts.<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>Transcription:<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.<\/p>\n<p>Today, I\u2019m sitting down with Mish Fletcher, Chief Growth Officer for Asia-Pacific for IPG, also known as the Interpublic Group. Welcome, Mish.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Thank you, Darren. It\u2019s great to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Mish, I said the Interpublic Group \u2014 most people in the industry know IPG but a lot of people actually don\u2019t remember that that actually means the Interpublic Group, which is a publicly listed company on the New York stock exchange, correct?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s right. And my email address is actually at Interpublic, so I have a reminder of that every day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And Interpublic Group actually represents quite a diverse portfolio of quite strong industry brands, doesn\u2019t it? You\u2019ve got some really great brands in there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. Well, arguably, I would say some of the most instantly recognisable creative and media brands. Obviously, McCANN is huge, MullenLowe, R\/GA. And then within the media brand side of things, obviously, UM, Initiative and then some really fabulous PR agencies as well, such as Weber Shandwick and Golin.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s also our newer capabilities that we\u2019ve acquired in more recent years; Acxiom, which is our data company, Kinesso which is our customer intelligence agency, Hedy which is our marketing automation, and then IPG Studios, which is all about agile production. So, yeah, we\u2019ve got a very, very robust offering that we go to market with.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s a truly global network, isn\u2019t it? I think IPG has operations in virtually every country in the world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I think it\u2019s about a hundred countries. Yeah, that\u2019s right. And obviously, in Australia and I\u2019m very fortunate to be here as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>So, one of the big issues that I think the whole industry is really struggling with \u2014 and I say struggle, is diversity and inclusion because this is an issue that\u2019s been around for decades, but it\u2019s interesting that during the pandemic, it really came to the fore, not just for the industry, but especially in the US and other markets with what was happening in the world. But the advertising industry particularly has been confronted by it and is working hard to address it, I imagine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, absolutely. I think for years Madison Avenue, I was in New York for many years, and it really was being run by grey-haired, white guys. And they\u2019re not really representative of the rest of the population and certainly, not representative of many of our client\u2019s customers.<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think it was Marc Pritchard when he got the top job at Procter &amp; Gamble somewhere like 2014, 2015, something like that. And he basically challenged all of his agencies and said, \u201cI don\u2019t wanna see the same faces all around this boardroom. I want to see the reflection of the types of people who are buying my products.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And he\u2019s selling tide detergent, and nappies and stuff like that. Like we need to make sure that we\u2019re having this diversity of thought and bringing that to the table, and that\u2019s super, super important.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s interesting, you mentioned the faces around the boardroom. One of the big areas and a figure that\u2019s thrown up is that 70 plus or 80% of all purchase decisions are made by women and yet, agencies today still often find themselves with most of the senior leadership still largely men, isn\u2019t that right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yes. I would agree with that. And look, I do think we\u2019re seeing that change and I certainly think there have been some really, really strong trailblazing women who\u2019ve broken the glass ceiling. Somebody like Shelly Lazarus who\u2019s now the Chairman Emeritus of Ogilvy but obviously she led Ogilvy for a very, very long time.<\/p>\n<p>And I think that she was perhaps one of the first women to lead a big agency network. But you\u2019re right like we\u2019ve known for years when we assemble teams, you need to get people who bring different skills to the team. You\u2019ve got this person who\u2019s really creative and this person who\u2019s analytical and this person who\u2019s really organised, and we\u2019ve always known that we need those different personality types.<\/p>\n<p>But it seems to have eluded the industry that we also need this sort of representation from across the population. These people who\u2019ve had different lived experiences can bring a different perspective to the business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>The other one that often comes up as well, is the ageism in advertising because it flippantly is called the young person\u2019s business. And yet in many ways, that\u2019s true because as you rise through the ranks of advertising, invariably, we all get older, but there are not as many positions at the top as there are at the bottom. And so, often, we find a lot of great talent and experience actually leaving the big jobs in the big agencies.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Or getting pushed out. And I think that that\u2019s changing. I\u2019ve seen some really great female leaders that I\u2019ve worked within agencies over the years who are actually landing some really big plum roles. So, I would like to believe that it\u2019s changing.<\/p>\n<p>I must say my experience at Accenture was such that at Accenture, your age and experience were really valued. And that was quite a reassuring perspective. And also, there was a much greater propensity to hire people, for example, with disabilities<\/p>\n<p>And having come through the agency ranks, I\u2019d never had the opportunity to meet with somebody with a disability, they just weren\u2019t represented at the agency level. But within Accenture, there\u2019s this attitude that we actually want to hire people with disabilities because they know how to problem solve and they know how to get things done.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I also through our practice in the US, get the sense that it\u2019s even a hotter issue, this whole area of diversity and inclusion than it is in other markets. The US really seems to be driving this globally because in many ways of the social inequities that are occurring there. I mean, how long were you in the US for? It was more than a decade, wasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, 17 years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And you would\u2019ve seen those issues evolving over that time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yes. And everything, I think, really kind of bubbled up to the surface during COVID and with the murder of George Floyd, and all of the civil unrest and protests, mostly peaceful protests. There were some patches of rioting and violence and stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p>But yes, it felt like this sort of sense that everybody had just had enough. And that COVID was in a way maybe the straw that broke the camel\u2019s back and everybody was just like, \u201cNo, we\u2019re not taking this anymore. Things have to change.\u201d And there was this huge energy and groundswell that I certainly felt and experienced while I was there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s juxtaposed by the Trump presidency, which was very much this rise of the working class and particularly, the white working class, that had also been disenfranchised by what many people call neoliberalism. That the rich were getting richer and the poor were getting poorer. And we had white poor people feeling that they were also being disenfranchised as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s true. And I think the hallmark of Trump\u2019s presidency will always be one of divisiveness. And I think he did a lot of damage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Now, it\u2019s an interesting journey. You\u2019ve already mentioned Accenture Interactive, but let\u2019s go back to there you are sitting in high school, going to university, and then suddenly saying to yourself, \u201cWhat\u2019s my career? What am I gonna do?\u201d How did you get into PR? It was PR, wasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I started in PR. Okay, so let\u2019s go way back. Thank you, Darren. But yes, when I left school, I went to the University of New South Wales and I studied a bachelor of commerce, majoring in marketing. And I loved the marketing subjects and we had one subject on PR and I just thought it sounded really interesting and sort of an opportunity to shift perceptions.<\/p>\n<p>And I had this notion as well, that I was gonna get involved in doing good for society as well by joining the PR profession. But of course, when uni finished, I couldn\u2019t wait to leave. So, I took a year off and backpacked around Europe by myself, and then came back right during the middle of a recession. And that wasn\u2019t great.<\/p>\n<p>And each week, there\u2019d be one marketing job advertised in the newspaper and there were like 500 applicants for this one job for an entry-level marketing person. So, I had a job that was paying the bills, but I was deeply unhappy and I was determined to get into PR. So, I actually enrolled in some post-graduate study.<\/p>\n<p>So, I was studying PR part-time and I recognised that if I wanted to break into this profession, I needed some experience. So, I started doing volunteer work. So, I was working for a charity. It was a charitable organisation, not-for-profit. It was the Friends of the Sydney Symphony Orchestra. So, I was working full time, studying part-time and doing-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Pro bono work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Volunteer. Yeah, pro bono work, exactly. And anyhow, so desperately wanted to break into PR and I took a week off work and I researched the top PR agencies in Sydney and the people who were making the hiring decisions. And I got all dressed up in my power suit with my gold buttons and my shoulder pads. And I basically walked into the reception of all of these agencies and just demanded to see Ian Cropper.<\/p>\n<p>And they would go, \u201cDo you have an appointment?\u201d And I would say \u201cNo, but he needs to meet me because I\u2019m his next great hire.\u201d And half the time, Ian Cropper or whoever would come out because he was like, \u201cWho is this person in reception?\u201d And then I had two notes prepared. One, if he chose to see me, and I would say, \u201cThis is me, this is my resume. You need to hire me.\u201d And I kind of had my spiel. And then the other one was if he couldn\u2019t hire me. And that\u2019s how I got my job. That\u2019s how I got my break in PR.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Fantastic. Now, look, first of all, I will say, and please forgive me \u2014 I said \u201cway back\u201d only because, in this industry, anything that\u2019s more than five years seems like a long time ago, and we sort of write it off as ancient history. So, I\u2019m not casting any judgment value on the start of your career because I think-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Not at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Experience counts for everything.<\/p>\n<p>Secondly, why PR? When you\u2019ve done a course in marketing, PR is actually sort of a segment of marketing and a particular, very particular segment. What was it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I just, well, as I said, I thought that maybe I could do some good. I could work on issues that were important to me. And that job that I did take was at the Rowland Company, which was later required by Edelman. And I was involved in some campaigns such as Clean Up Australia, which was really important.<\/p>\n<p>I was also involved in a lot of issues-based health accounts, which again was something that really kind of resonated with me. I didn\u2019t really like all of the quantitative sides of the marketing, so I just wanted to work more on the promotional side. But definitely, that desire to do something that was going to change the world, I think I was very idealistic back then.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s interesting because the advertising agencies that particularly get cut through also particularly get the power of PR, not to just promote the ads they\u2019ve made, but actually coming up with ideas that work in PR, that work at getting audiences to get excited or be interested or stand out. And I\u2019m thinking Droga5\u2019s a good example.<\/p>\n<p>I did an interview with Anthony Freedman at Host; Host was certainly built on that. Thinkerbell today, is definitely a company in Australia that does that. So, is that also part of it, because there is something quite powerful and quite immediate about PR.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s a really interesting observation that the work that seems to be getting traction, just maybe taps into some sort of social phenomenon or something that we think is really going to capture the imagination of the public, and then the work flows through that.<\/p>\n<p>So, yeah, I would agree. I think that when we think about activations, we think about cut through, we think about seizing headlines, you\u2019re right, that is very PR-driven. And I also think a lot of the distinctions that we make between PR and digital and advertising, I mean, everything seems to be really kind of blurring into one. Would you agree with that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. I think this omnichannel approach or this idea that it\u2019s not just about doing your advertising, that it\u2019s actually looking at every opportunity of engaging an audience. Because one of the hardest things to do today is to actually compete for someone\u2019s attention. I mean, there are so many things that you\u2019re competing with that finding the most powerful channels and leveraging them well is so important.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Right. And then all of the media fragmentation and everybody\u2019s attention is so split; how can you kind of encompass the individual with a campaign that really seizes the imagination? I do think it is also tapping into some sort of cultural phenomenon or something that\u2019s really topical or relevant, and that\u2019s a really great PR skill.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>So, Mish, one of the things I noticed is that from going into PR, you then ended up really using those skills, the PR skills in what is the classic B2B category, which is helping agencies promote themselves. I mean of all the things that a PR person could do, you ended up really specialising and excelling at working with agencies where a lot of people say, \u201cWell, advertising agencies should know how to promote themselves,\u201d but they don\u2019t, do they? They really do need people to help them work out how to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>A hundred per cent. The cobbler\u2019s children, I would definitely think is the case. And you\u2019re right, I did then kind of parlay my PR experience into an opportunity in London. And then I went to work for a technology-led PR agency called McLaurin. And it was actually my old boss at the Rowland Company who then tapped me to move to London because I\u2019d always said that I wanted to live and work overseas. I sort of felt that I needed to spread my wings and go elsewhere.<\/p>\n<p>And I had the opportunity to establish essentially that\u2026.we called it business communications and that was the department. And the specialty was working with agency brands and in fact, communications brands. We had media brands and we had design brands and basically, we were working for all of these clients in order to build their reputations in the B2B space. And I really liked it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Because a lot of agencies sort of sit there wondering why they do great work for their clients, why don\u2019t they become instantly famous? And it\u2019s because they don\u2019t really get how to build their own brand, do they?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>No, they don\u2019t. I also think that there\u2019s this kind of weird phenomenon in advertising agencies where they separate, they tend to separate out the growth function and the marketing function. Or they have comms people and then growth people, and they might kind of talk to each other, but there\u2019s no overarching strategy.<\/p>\n<p>And I think that that\u2019s a real opportunity to do both new business and marketing and bring it all under one roof because then you get all of the synergies from doing it like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s so true. I mean, there\u2019s the team that fill out the mindless RFPs and there\u2019s those that actually do trade media management and events and things like that, really as ways and publications as ways of building the profile of the agency.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, exactly. And so, for example, if we wanted to launch a new capability, and I\u2019ve done many of those over the course of my career; but launch the capability, but think about it with the end at the beginning, which is, well, we want to generate leads and we want to drive revenue for this capability. So, then how can we get back into it? And then how can we actually create the angle, create the hypothesis, and the hook for, let\u2019s say a piece of thought leadership or an original piece of research that actually then points to the capability that we\u2019re wanting to sell.<\/p>\n<p>And then how can we surround our targets with all of these touch points as you mentioned before, and that\u2019s PR, and it\u2019s also maybe just play, straight sales enablement and actually meetings and how can we create all of the assets and all of the materials to stitch the whole campaign together, as opposed to just kind of thinking about it through separate lenses. And I\u2019m jumping ahead in my career here. I was going to talk about what was a lot of what I did when I was at OgilvyOne.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And B2B is quite different from B2C as well. I mean, people say it\u2019s the same discipline, but it\u2019s actually quite a different way of thinking. I know business people are still people, but a consumer purchase is quite a different consideration to a business purchase.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. And we know that the sales cycle is much longer and much more complex in the B2B world than it is in the B2C world. And actually, that\u2019s one of the things that I like about it. It\u2019s sort of a little bit more of a long game and a little bit more of a challenge. Yes, there could be sort of some short-term impact, but you\u2019re really going to see the results, the effectiveness of your work further down the line.<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s also, building the reputation and the more you build the reputation, the more you build your business and the more you build your business, the more you build the brand. And then it sort of becomes this hopefully cumulative process like a snowball cascading down the hill.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>One of the things I noticed as a copywriter in agencies was that it was very difficult to get anyone, even senior management to commit to a particular positioning or a set of values that they stood for because they wanted to be everything to everyone. They didn\u2019t want to actually etch out a particular positioning because what if a potential client came along and that didn\u2019t suit that client.<\/p>\n<p>And yet, that\u2019s one of the things that agencies are highly critical of their clients for \u2013 not committing to the unique selling proposition or the ultimate positioning in the marketplace. And yet agencies still struggle with it because driven by what you said before, the growth says, \u201cI want as many clients as possible, and I don\u2019t mind where they come from,\u201d but marketing actually says \u201cLet\u2019s stand for something, and have that be the thing that differentiates or makes us distinctive from all the other agencies.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Oh, yeah. Well said. And yes, having done many agency credentials over the years, I can tell you that it\u2019s pretty hard to reach a consensus. And you\u2019ve got a lot of people with very, very strong opinions, but you\u2019re right. We would advise our clients to establish a clear point of difference and crack open that sort of gap, and then charge through it. So, yes, you\u2019re absolutely right. We need to do the same.<\/p>\n<p>And I think that that sort of raises an interesting point around the commoditisation of the industry, and the importance now more than ever of really having that clear point of view.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve sat through thousands of credentials presentations, and very few of them stand out because everyone ends up saying the same thing. It\u2019s almost like there\u2019s a list of things that everyone thinks they should be, and they just automatically, the water runs into those positions and everyone ticks it off and you walk outta there going \u201cWhat am I meant to remember?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And the other thing is occasionally, you\u2019ll have an agency that has a very clear, powerful and distinctive proposition, which they might put up front, they might bury it somewhere in the middle, or they might mention it as you\u2019re walking out the door at the end. But very few of them are committed to actually building the whole story around that proposition, and actually reinforcing it over and over again.<\/p>\n<p>Because one of the things that we say to our clients is say it, say it again, say, say, and just keep saying it until it gets in. But agencies will change the proposition as quickly as they change their underpants daily, hopefully.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Hopefully, exactly, exactly. And I think our industry has undergone a lot of change certainly in the time that I\u2019ve been fortunate to be part of the advertising industry. It\u2019s such an incredible transformation. It\u2019s quite interesting as well.<\/p>\n<p>Like when I first joined OgilvyOne, and OgilvyOne, for those who don\u2019t know is\/was \u2014 doesn\u2019t exist as a brand anymore, but it was sort of the digital data tech arm of Ogilvy. And when I first joined, it was in many ways, we were\u00a0 the poor cousin, and that nobody thought that the data tech space was particularly sexy or interesting.<\/p>\n<p>It was all about what was then called above the line, and doing 30-second TVCs and maybe a two-minute cut for cinema or something like that. But I just have observed that how the tables have turned because now, everybody wants to be in the\u00a0 data-inspired tech-enabled space, because we know that that is what\u2019s delivering value for clients.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s all about being able to target your audience with laser precision, and serve up really meaningful messages that are going to resonate with them and translate into action and build loyalty, and there you go.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I love this because I was a big fan of Lester Wunderman who only passed away a couple of years ago. But what Lester was writing about in the sixties and seventies, of pathways, mapping out customer pathways and having a typing pool of women typing out personalised letters and mailing them to people with paid responses. And when the response came out, they\u2019d get either response, A, B or C going back and it was done over weeks and weeks because it was all done by letter and mail, the post.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And can you imagine how he felt with the digitisation of the industry and\u2026\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Real-time response with ultimate personalisation based on customer data and at scale. The thing that would limit is how many typers can I fit in the typing pool? Whereas now, it\u2019s how many terabytes can I put on the server and how much grunt can I put behind it \u2026 and is my AI effective in actually learning from the responses that I see from my customers to be able to personalise their experience and increase the chance of converting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And isn\u2019t that awesome that he lived to see that happen?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And in fact, I never really met him personally, but I have certainly been at events in which he was honoured. So, yeah, a true icon and yeah, somebody who really transformed the industry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>But he also saw that transformation of, as you said before, the below the line became the game and everyone wanted to play it. I love it when I\u2019m talking to people and they go, \u201cWell, I used to be what was called a direct marketer.\u201d And I go, \u201cI love you already,\u201d because I think direct marketers are the ones that know the philosophy, the methodology that needs to be applied today.<\/p>\n<p>There are too many people working in digital and tech that are digital and tech people, but they don\u2019t actually get direct marketing. They get the technology and they don\u2019t get the way of using it for human beings because human beings haven\u2019t changed that much in a hundred thousand years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, you\u2019re right. It\u2019s like the golden age of direct marketing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>It is. Yeah, absolutely. So, that\u2019s OgilvyOne, but then you went to Accenture Interactive. I mean, in many ways that\u2019s why leap, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Isn\u2019t it? Well, it was kind of the same job. I was the global head of marketing at OgilvyOne, and then I became the global head of marketing at Accenture Interactive. And I think in many ways, I kind of joined that pivotal moment when Accenture Interactive wanted to compete head-to-head with agencies.<\/p>\n<p>So, it was a great opportunity and a hell of a ride. And we did some incredible things during the three years that I was there, and certainly built such a strong agency brand and launched some great capabilities, worked very closely with Brian Whipple, the former CEO of Accenture Interactive. So, yeah, it was pretty wild.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>But it was also a time when Accenture and the other consulting firms were seen as the enemy of the agencies. And it\u2019s only been recently with acquisitions of some big creative agency brands like Droga5 and Karmarama and the like, that that started to change. But even then, they\u2019re still seen as pretenders or are they real threats or what is it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. Well, and that whole consultancies versus agencies narrative was getting pretty tired. And that was actually one of the reasons why we wanted to create an entirely new category. And that was the experience agency.<\/p>\n<p>And it was actually, Anatoly Roytman who was the head of Accenture Interactive in Europe. And he initially had this vision around creating an experience-agency. And so, that was one of the things that we wanted to do, was just go, well, hold on, consultancies versus agencies, that\u2019s boring. Let\u2019s just create an entirely new category.<\/p>\n<p>And what tends to happen in my experience, when you try to create a new category is that you are initially met with cynicism and when the media report on it, they\u2019ll use quotation marks around experience agency as though this isn\u2019t a real thing. But then, of course, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. And over time, now, there were lots of agencies that-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Everyone\u2019s doing it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re an \u201cexperience agency\u201d, there you go. There you go. So, I have a bit of a chuckle when I say that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>But then you went from Accenture Interactive back to the agency in a way, FCB\/SIX.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. And I went from a huge Accenture Interactive to something that was really, really small. And that was quite deliberate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Was there a big Godfather part two; \u201cJust as I got out, they dragged me back in\u201d \u2014 was that the sort of \u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Oh, the agency works \u2026 yeah. And I think after having worked for a really big company, I was really inspired to work for a small company. And I was very impressed with the CEO, Andrea Cook, and FCB\/SIX has now been reinvented as Performance Art. It\u2019s still within the IPG family.<\/p>\n<p>But what really attracted me to the agency was just the incredible work those guys were doing, some really, really groundbreaking work. Bringing together creativity and data in a way that nobody was, like really re-imagining what was possible, some really breakthrough work for the company that specialises in black travel.<\/p>\n<p>We did some amazing work for Destination Pride with PFLAG. Some incredible work as well with Tarana Burke\u2019s MeToo organisation. And what was so interesting about all of that is that it was platforms, it was platforms that lived on. It wasn\u2019t like a short burst campaign and those platforms still exist for all of those clients that we work for. And I just thought that is really interesting. That is the future. So, I was really, really attracted to that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s really interesting that you say that because a lot of the industry talks about creative ideas or creative platforms, but really, they\u2019re talking about executions in a way; executions on a strategy, but actually building platforms that exist within the culture and within society is so powerful because as you say, it gets cultural support, it gets people-support that carrys them on beyond the campaign or beyond the execution.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, and as the platform exists and it generates data, that data then informs the platform and that continues to grow and evolve. And it just becomes this almost organic thing that people will go back to time and time again, versus something that\u2019s just a flash in the pan. So, I thought that the work that Performance Art was now doing was just so amazing. And of course, now, doing lots of work for BMW in in the US.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>And then they made you an offer you obviously couldn\u2019t refuse. They said go west, young woman, to Asia-Pacific, the most diverse markets in the world, not just from language, but culture, finance, currency, economy \u2014 there\u2019s so many diversities to manage in APAC. I always love it when my European colleagues tell me how diverse Europe is, and I go, \u201cCome and spend some time in Asia-Pacific.\u201d But now, you are here and you\u2019re driving the business growth for IPG across Asia-Pacific.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yes. And gosh, I wish I could go and visit some of the markets, Darren.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Soon, soon.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Soon, hopefully; desperate, desperate to get off the island and go and meet all of these people that I\u2019ve had the opportunity to connect with virtually over the last seven or eight months. So, yeah, amazing opportunity. And it worked out really well in that \u2026 and rarely do things work out quite so well, Darren, when in the middle of the pandemic I just really wanted to be in Australia, it felt like the safest part of the world to be.<\/p>\n<p>And at the same time, my boss, the Global Chief Growth Officer, Simon Bond, was looking for somebody to fill this role. So, very serendipitous for me. And yeah, it\u2019s been amazing. I\u2019ve loved every minute of it. I really love IPG as an organisation. It has a great culture and I feel like it\u2019s a really great fit.<\/p>\n<p>And yeah, amazing people, amazing agencies. And I feel like we\u2019re just getting started, so more to come. Maybe you\u2019ll have me back on your show at some point in the future, and I can tell you all about what we\u2019ve been doing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely, Mish. And one of the things I\u2019ll be interested in, is that you at an IPG level, you\u2019ve got quite diverse offerings and a very broad spectrum of marketing comms and all the related businesses. You\u2019re now working in quite a diverse marketplace or region, because as I said before, Asia Pacific. You\u2019re going to be working with huge and diverse numbers of people across those marketplaces. What do you see are the biggest challenges or the biggest opportunities in this role?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I mean, absolutely the fact that every market is so unique and different. And so, we see a lot of regional activity, but it\u2019s all kind of driven at a local market level. So, that\u2019s certainly been my observation so far.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, certainly sort of the languages and cultures and I\u2019m still learning all about it. But yeah, I would definitely say that diversity is one and creating regional solutions, but that are very applicable at the local market level. So, yeah, that\u2019s been a big focus.<\/p>\n<p>I think the other part for me is really helping modernise the offering that we are bringing to clients through the lens of data, through tech, like being able to bring these newer assets and capabilities and finding ways to help clients really connect with their customers and grow their businesses.<\/p>\n<p>So, that\u2019s something and I\u2019m working on a market-by-market basis at the moment, but there certainly seems to be a lot of activity. I\u2019m pleased to say that I feel like Asia is starting to reemerge from COVID, there\u2019s some optimism. There seems to be certainly just a lot of RFPs, big flurries of RFPs and just a lot of energy, a lot of, I would say, cautious excitement. But I definitely feel like we\u2019ve turned a corner and I think that it\u2019s gonna be a great year, the year of the tiger.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. Yes, the year of the tiger this year. What are some of the things that you\u2019ve learnt looking back on your career? What would be the lessons that you\u2019ve taken into this role?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>You know, I always joke to people that I\u2019m a great coach and mentor because I\u2019ve made all of the mistakes so I can advise people on the mistakes not to make. I think one of the biggest things that I\u2019ve had to learn is to let go of my perfectionist streak. And I think that that\u2019s something that a lot of women suffer from and we just try to get everything perfect, as opposed to just get it out the door. That\u2019s been a really big learning for me.<\/p>\n<p>Another thing is just to re-frame mistakes as experiences and just move on. And once again, I do think women sometimes have a habit of beating ourselves up. And so, definitely, just being able to go \u201cRight, that didn\u2019t go quite the way I wanted it to, so I\u2019m going to learn from that experience and do things differently next time.\u201d So, definitely that.<\/p>\n<p>I think it\u2019s also about knowing your worth and knowing the value that you bring to organisations, and knowing that you can have a conversation. I think women try to avoid some of those difficult conversations around salary and promotions and resourcing, and things like that. And I certainly, have been like that through maybe some of the earliest stages in my career.<\/p>\n<p>But I feel like as you learn through your experiences and you are more prepared to have conversations to help you get both what you want and what the company needs, it\u2019s a two-way stream.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I think it\u2019s really interesting. And I\u2019m sitting here listening to your insights, Mish, and I\u2019m thinking it\u2019s also been interesting because you reflect that on the fact that your role has largely been promoting other businesses. Whereas a lot of what you\u2019re talking about is also learning how to promote yourself. And I think a lot of people really struggle with that.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of women will find themselves very comfortable doing all the planning and then putting someone else first, usually a male, to actually deliver that message. But will often feel either it\u2019s because they don\u2019t feel that they\u2019re going to be perfect, they\u2019re going to be concerned around how will they be judged for any mistakes they make or not valuing the worth \u2014 the other three that you said to actually stand out and be that voice and be the lead on it. Is that something that you\u2019ve reflected on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, and I have quite consciously spent time building my personal brand because if we want to change some of the issues around lack of female representation at really senior levels of leadership, if we want to change the fact that women earn 23% less than men, what can we as women do differently. And I think it is about visibility, and I think personal branding is a really important part of that.<\/p>\n<p>And for me, branding kind of begins with \u2026 your personal branding, it just begins with self-awareness and knowing what your strengths are and what your values are. And then once you\u2019ve been able to identify that, then you can ensure that you live your values, that the actions that you take exhibit those, and really that\u2019s how you build your reputation.<\/p>\n<p>So, for me, something that\u2019s extremely important to me whenever I do like a strengths finder or something like that; something that comes up is honesty and respect, and respect for others. So, I have always tried to be honest and transparent in my interactions with others. For example, I always try to be very punctual because I think that that\u2019s respectful to others to do that.<\/p>\n<p>So, just look for ways to build your personal brand and build your reputation and know that people are going to come to rely on you because of these strengths that you exhibit. And then another part of that is visibility. And I think you\u2019re right. I think women, and I\u2019ve also spent a lot of my career building the reputations of the CEOs that I\u2019ve worked for.<\/p>\n<p>But I think we, as women need to be more comfortable stepping into the spotlight and building our own platforms, having something meaningful to say, and doing things like intentional networking and actually having a robust profile on LinkedIn and agreeing to do podcasts and speak on stage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Look, and the great thing is that there are more and more opportunities. And in fact, I know that a lot of events, industry events are looking for women to step up and want to take the opportunities to share their knowledge, share their perspective, share their particular perspective on a whole range of issues.<\/p>\n<p>Because I think the days of hearing the same group of male, pale and stale is exactly that. And so, this is the opportunity. I know you are a very keen and committed mentor but have you had your own mentors? Are you committed to mentoring because you\u2019ve had some great mentors?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>I do have some great, great mentors. I would definitely say Brian Fetherstonhaugh, the CEO of OgilvyOne has been an incredible career mentor to me. And also, maybe earlier on in my career, Sue Sutton gave me my first break in PR when I thought I was going to change the world.<\/p>\n<p>And yeah, and I do think it\u2019s very important to have somebody that you can discuss your career issues or opportunities with and bounce things up and get their advice, and people who are more experienced than you and have seen it all.<\/p>\n<p>And yes, I am committed. I do mentor a lot of young women and I\u2019m always just so thrilled when I see them get ahead and get amazing new jobs and opportunities. And if I can play some small part in helping them achieve that, that makes me happy. I think it\u2019s interesting as well, Darren, that you brought the conversation back to diversity; women on stage and speaking and representation. There you go. You\u2019ve done this before.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Well, look, you led me there. I was just following where you took the conversation. But Mish, this has been a terrific conversation. I wish you all the luck. You are more than credentialed to do an outstanding job building IPG in AsiaPac. It\u2019s going to have it challenges, I\u2019m sure, but you are more than equipped to excel. So, thank you for taking the time and having a chat today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mish<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Look, I just have one question before you go, and that is do you think that Accenture Interactive will eventually take over the advertising world?<\/p>\n<p><em>Ideal for marketers, advertis<\/em><em>ers, media, and commercial communications professionals, Managing Marketing is a podcast hosted by Darren Woolley and special guests.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.trinityp3.com\/managing-marketing-podcasts\/\">Find all the episodes here<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.fiverr.com\/gig_widgets?id=U2FsdGVkX18x7XQvttUTrv1oEqmGNGTgvvCUiUoJ\/AP4z\/UyMz8lXGOLpu15jIMxBbTR0gmD5uBoFvhC4KWeALQRp3h\/X\/AwcVD0K8Wj9H\/ZzYKzcCNHosB9oS4SCJJFWiN85P9ICAc4OgCoE\/wHKIY7CDkf2\/DQ1vqGvk4smVe5cRDEmrLPCWi4FC8p40VUhSmWQ5udCm0zoJtorgWv3vbDQw0kKYkwn39ozAnQXDe+YvWMxkLFWA+O3TFwkJvdkIK+\/AUSnRssPKt5WHY0FhNOxnSPcLslEL4G4\/RfP95ve99U+kRnDy3X+KtzdQLY+u935ghON\/o3UE4IMv9oN6JX9RnxzL\/LRcOgnHigxStSGPKsZYtnz8RWNVT\/rOLAibqiWJadC5MYHRbekF3eg6FOGrQGkXYbsn0+a5aovnlLCbLwIqY9fcS17UX8J235iQ6cdmHNbrPeS84CMm34RA==&affiliate_id=1052423&strip_google_tagmanager=true\" loading=\"lazy\" data-with-title=\"true\" class=\"fiverr_nga_frame\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"350\" width=\"100%\" referrerpolicy=\"no-referrer-when-downgrade\" data-mode=\"random_gigs\" onload=\" var frame = this; var script = document.createElement('script'); script.addEventListener('load', function() { window.FW_SDK.register(frame); }); script.setAttribute('src', 'https:\/\/www.fiverr.com\/gig_widgets\/sdk'); document.body.appendChild(script); \" ><\/iframe>\n<br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/www.trinityp3.com\/2022\/02\/diversity-and-agency-brand-building\/\">Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Managing Marketing\u00a0is a podcast hosted by TrinityP3 Founder and Global CEO,\u00a0Darren Woolley.\u00a0Each podcast is a conversation with a thought-leader, professional or practitioner of marketing and&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":11983,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-11981","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-tech-universe"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Diversity and Agency Brand Building - mailinvest.blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Technology is forever changing, and there are always new pieces of technology to replace obsolete ones. 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